Perry Bacon Jr.: I don’t like covering politics in this day and age. But audiences and voters seem to be more engaged with this show than they were in, say, 2004, when I might have had more fun covering it. So it’s a complicated story.
Amanda Ripley: According to a poll, more than half of Americans feel scared, tired, and depressed when they look at the world. And I can relate. And I wonder, could it be done? How do you both feel about the 2024 election, as journalists, as humans, as Americans?
bacon: That’s scary. I used to be someone who was really excited about going to Iowa.I think that’s really it [Donald] Mr. Trump. Trump has given many people this sense of crisis.
Now it’s even more extreme. When my wife and I have dinner with another couple, we usually text the guy and say, “We try not to talk about politics outside of work.”
Ripley: hang on. Can I confirm that I understand? People naturally start talking about politics, so you want to set the stage, right? Just like we’re torturing you now.
bacon: Just to be clear, I get paid to do this. That’s an important difference!
When I’m at the park with my daughter, I really try to say, “I’m going to spend two minutes on this.” And sometimes I set a timer.
Jim Geraghty: Traditionally in our politics, when someone you can’t stand comes along – Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama – they’re gone in eight years. they won’t come back. Most of our former presidents have been very quiet. Trump wasn’t like that.
Ripley: Especially for young Americans, this is the only kind of politics they know, so it’s really damaging, isn’t it? This kind of us versus them burns down the politics of the house.
Politics is supposed to make us feel like we have a little bit of power over our own destiny.
bacon: Another thing I often struggle with is, “What is the nature of this conflict?” There were violent conflicts in the 1860s and his 1960s, and I wouldn’t be on this podcast if people weren’t willing to engage in those conflicts. #MeToo was a moment of intense conflict. I’m glad it happened. The 2020 protests turned into violent conflict. I’m glad something like that happened. The debate about how race and education are taught in Southern states is actually about something. They’re trying to ban ideas that I think are important to understanding where we stand in terms of race.
People are deeply concerned. They feel like the America they want is slipping away from them. And I don’t want to minimize that conflict.
Listen to the full conversation here.
