Gail Collins: Brett, without wanting to give away anything, do you have any predictions for tonight’s big debate?
Bret Stephens: I won’t make any predictions. I can only hope that both candidates will perform roughly the same as they did four years ago: a consistent Joe Biden and an insane Donald Trump. I’m afraid that Trump will restrain himself and avoid being goaded into flatly denying the results of the 2020 election, and that Biden will lose his cool with apparent memory loss, slurred sentences, or a bewildering blank look.
But here’s a question for you: If Biden’s performance is dismal, will you join me in calling on the Democratic Party to find a new candidate?
GayleBrett, that would be pretty disastrous, certainly, if the president suddenly went blank and just stared at the screen in silence, forgot what he was talking about, and started praising the Democratic congressional candidate from Delaware.
Brett: Or if he says things like he’s said in the past, like, “Poor kids are just as smart and talented as white kids.”
GayleBut I would be disappointed if Biden gave a boring answer that didn’t put Trump in the corner he deserves: Why would the Democrats refuse to renominate a sitting president who has done so well in every respect?
I bet you wouldn’t agree….
BrettMy first, second, and third goal is to defeat Trump. There is no question, for example, that Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, taking Biden’s place in the debate, would crush former President Biden and all but guarantee a Democratic victory in the must-win Keystone State.
Gayle: Look, there are almost always better scenarios than reality, but we live in a political moment where avoiding disaster is the most reasonable goal.
BrettSo I can only pray, and hope that Biden will deliver three simple messages: We cannot entrust our democracy to a man who will not accept the results of our election. We cannot entrust our freedom to a president who appoints judges who deny our right to choose. And we cannot entrust our safety to a man who is willing to hand Ukraine over to the wolves of the Kremlin.
Speaking of freedom, any thoughts on the Ten Commandments in Louisiana schools?
Gayle: It’s all negative. I have nothing against the Ten Commandments, but in an ideal world they would be better rephrased a little bit. But there are a lot of kids who go to public schools where the story of Moses on Mount Sinai is not part of their culture. And that’s just the beginning of the problem.
It’s easy to imagine individual teachers posting the Ten Commandments on their walls and preaching their own dogmas, like some politicians in Louisiana.
you?
BrettI sometimes wonder what commandments 11-20 would have been like if Moses hadn’t run out of stone tablets. “Thou shalt not enslave” and “Thou shalt not rape” would be high on my list, as would “Thou shalt not impose thy religion on those who do not want it.”
Gayle: I like your addition.
BrettIf people want to send their kids to private school, that’s up to them. I don’t object to taxpayer money being used to provide vouchers for private school. But Louisiana’s tactic is not just an affront to the separation of church and state; it’s an attempt to start a new culture war, one that will only get worse if Trump is elected.
Gayle, another topic that’s catching people’s attention this week is the election of Trump as vice president. I don’t think you have a favorite, but do you have a least favorite?
GayleBrett, I understand Kamala Harris, but it’s unreasonable to expect anyone to not have negative feelings about any of the Republican vice presidential candidates.
Brett: Even Elise Stefanik?
Gayle: The three leading candidates are Sen. J.D. Vance of Ohio, North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum, and his old friend Marco Rubio of Florida. From Trump’s perspective, Burgum may be the front-runner because he’s rich and too boring to compete for attention.
None of them would be good presidents, but who could be a better president than Trump? That part might not be so hard.
I hand the discussion over to you…
BrettThey would all be better presidents than President Trump. And that’s not a compliment.
I don’t understand why Burgum is on the shortlist. He gave a disjointed debate performance during the primaries, and is governor of an inconsequential state who signed a near-total ban on abortion in North Dakota. This isn’t going to help Trump win over undecided women in the Philadelphia suburbs where the election may be decided.
Gayle: Well, dragging the ticket down certainly works, but keep going.
BrettJ.D. Vance scares me. He has become one of the most ardent isolationists in the Republican caucus. I remember doing a CNN with him just before the 2016 election, and we agreed that we wanted Trump to lose by as big a margin as possible. The fact that he’s now a full-on MAGA supporter shows that he has no principles, just wild ambition.
That leaves Rubio, or “Little Marco,” as Trump likes to call him. Deep down, he’s a relatively decent Republican with reformist instincts, and he could help bring a lot of the Hispanic vote to the GOP. If there was a way to get around the constitutional problems that would arise from having the presidential and vice presidential candidates come from the same state, Rubio would probably be Trump’s best choice.
GayleIf Trump were reborn as a New Yorker, surely we could do something to make him suffer.
Brett: Unlimited McDonald’s gift cards?
Gayle: So going back to the debate, I expect the moderator to ask the candidates to say something nice about each other. What kind of answer do you think they’ll give?
BrettHmm…how about “Joe, we’re touched by your loyalty to that cheating prodigal you call your son” followed immediately by “Donald, Jill and I deeply admire your honest admission of sexual attraction to your daughter”?
But seriously, what questions do you want candidates to ask you?
Gayle: Well, it’s natural to ask Biden about his age. No 82-year-old has ever been sworn in on Inauguration Day. There are plenty of talented presidential candidates in the Democratic Party. There’s no need to draw the line so far.
Of course, Biden could also point out that Trump will be the oldest person to take office, and while he appears to be a much more energetic 78, it could also be argued that the only thing worse than a president with an old brain is a president with an old brain and unlimited power to push his own terrible ideas.
Brett: Hehe. All I want to ask Mr. Trump is about his denial of the election results and his responsibility for January 6th.
I would also like to see the hosts review the list of things Trump has said about his cabinet members — “stupid as a stone” (Rex Tillerson), “Coco Chow” (Elaine Chao), “mentally disabled” (Jeff Sessions), “delusional” (Mike Pence) — and question why Trump makes such terrible judgments about people.
anything else?
Gayle: Well, there are about nine million things I’d like to ask Trump. Does he want us to think that his statement about being elected a dictator was just… a joke? What about his promise that if other politicians are “doing well and beating me badly, I’m going to go down and say I’m going to prosecute them”?
Meanwhile, most of the questions for Biden have been about issues like how he thinks the student loan forgiveness program has worked, and I know that’s where you and I differ.
Brett: a bit.
GayleBrett, there aren’t that many memorable presidential debates. The first one I saw was one of the few, Kennedy vs. Nixon. My father was a staunch Republican, so we were all excited to root for Richard Nixon. But when I actually saw them in front of the cameras, I was taken aback by Nixon’s melancholic, slack-jawed, slightly depressed look, which contrasted so much with John F. Kennedy’s almost flamboyant demeanor.
I think that made a difference, but now that people are watching the major presidential candidates online every day and every night, it’s hard to imagine such a surprise.
Brett: The race has intensified over the past few weeks, and Biden has a chance to prove he is more level-headed and sane than his opponents claim and his allies fear. Trump has a chance to show he has the ability to think beyond his own Himalayan narcissism. So I think this debate could decide the fate of either candidate. Bring the popcorn and Chardonnay to the viewing party.
Gayle: I agree, but I think I’ll go with the Merlot.
Brett: One last thing, Gail. I skipped our regular chat last weekend, but I wanted my readers to read a Father’s Day reminiscence written by my colleague Cornelia Channing about her father, who died young from dementia, when Cornelia was still a teenager. Of the final hours she spent with her father, she says, “Then there was a moment when the ridiculous became almost sacred, a kind of unspoken filial piety. It helped me to grasp across the chasm of my father’s illness, something tangible and familiar.”
I hope that one day my children will have memories as beautiful and meaningful as Cornelia’s of her father, and that his memory will be a blessing.
