James Sunderland: James Cleverley says Rwanda plan is a hoax

The Conservative parliamentary candidate and aide to Home Secretary James Cleverley has described the government’s flagship policy, the Rwanda immigration policy, as “shit”.

James Sunderland, who served as the MP for Bracknell from 2019 to 2024 and is running to represent the constituency again, was recorded expressing the view at a private event in April.

In an audio recording given to the BBC, he can be heard saying: “This policy is rubbish, OK? Rubbish.”

He has also defended the plans, saying they will stop migrants trying to cross the Channel into the UK.

“This is not a question of policy, but of policy effectiveness,” he says.

Mr Sunderland was giving a speech on April 2nd titled “What’s it like behind the scenes at the Home Office” at an event for young Conservative members organised by the True Blue Patrons Supper Club.

He served as parliamentary secretary to both Mr Cleverley and Suella Braverman.

Sunderland was quoted as saying: “I’ve been involved in this for the last two years and I’m immersed in it so maybe I shouldn’t say too much about it.”

“My point is, no one is using cameras or their phones, this policy is terrible. It’s terrible.”

He adds: “But it’s not a question of policy. It’s a question of policy effectiveness. It’s a second- or third-order effect.”

“Similar policies have had devastating effects in Australia, for example. Once the first flights begin, there will no doubt be a jolt across the Channel that will put a stop to the gangs.”

Sunderland also criticised other colleagues for being “controversial” and “polarising”.

“I’m not saying stupid things. I’m not making the front pages of the newspapers. I’m just doing my job. You can admire the hard work,” he said.

“If you just stir up controversy like Jonathan Garris, Brendan Clarke-Smith and Lee Anderson have, it will polarise opinion and I don’t want that to happen.”

Garris and Clarke-Smith are both former Conservative MPs and current candidates, while Anderson was once a Conservative MP but left the party in March to run for Reform UK again.

Mr Sunderland told the BBC: “I am disappointed that it was recorded at a private event. I answered the question frankly. I was talking about my response to the policy – it’s not the policy itself but part of a wider response.”

“I have never publicly criticised any of my colleagues but I was asked about the resignation of a colleague from a party position. I replied honestly that there is no need for unnecessary rhetoric and division in public.”

A Conservative spokesman said: “Not everyone will like this policy but having an effective deterrent is the only way to stop ships.”

Labour’s shadow home secretary, Yvette Cooper, said: “The Conservative plan for Rwanda has been thoroughly exposed as an outrageous failure.”

She added: “The Conservatives have run the Rwanda aid programme for two years. They’ve sent £300 million and two volunteers to Rwanda.”

“When will the Conservatives be honest with the public and admit they are clearly saying privately that the Rwanda plan is a complete fraud?”

In November, Mr Cleverley faced questions after it was reported he had privately described the Rwanda plan as “ridiculous”.